...in which we talk about her already-famous research as she prepares to transition (pardon the triggering language) from grad student to what comes next.
The first time I heard Eliza being interviewed several years ago I knew immediately she was someone I needed to follow if I wanted to develop a deeper understanding of gender ideology. This interview didn’t disappoint. It offered up insightful analysis while being thoroughly imbued with compassion. Jenny - the quality of your interviews and conversations with your guests is unmatched.
Thanks for interviewing Eliza, I look forward to reading the thesis. I hope it gets a DOI reference so it can be cited definitively. I believe academia.edu also allows free uploads of papers but I don't see Eliza has a profile there, under that name.
Yeah, the pseudonym predated my time in graduate school. When I started writing about gender online in 2019, I would have been fired from my nonprofit job had I used my real name, since trans-obsessed foundations were our biggest funders.
All of my academic work and my work (mostly behind the scenes) to help bring clinicians and researchers together has been under my real name for years. I plan to share my thesis when it's published online but it hasn't been added to my university's library yet.
This was a great conversation!! I found myself chiming in (luckily nobody heard me) as you were discussing the motivations and psychology of these girls.
I would like to add a third way that some girls react to the pressures of girlhood/womanhood. You noted that there are efforts to play along, dig deep into looking the part (ie. “hot”), and trying for popularity, etc., or, by contrast, efforts to diverge from this path by playing the victim, owning your various diagnoses or weaknesses and opting out of the difficulty of adhering to the undue pressure of trying to be an ideal woman. I know you both agreed this may be a bit simplistic, but I agree with you that these are worthwhile categories of adaption style.
Here is a third option. You aren’t weak or filled with diagnoses. Instead, you are truly unique and cool, a “true trans” individual who is well put together and will make a great guy (because we all know that “pretty boys” are elevated by society - and these days, that even applies to gay pretty boys, aka “twinks,” although you will be pretty short - oh well; you’ll be fashionable; and a sensitive boy is also highly valued, at least as girls see it). In this method of adapting, you completely opt out of all the pressures of womanhood but don’t take on victimhood. You’re not a victim. You’re a unicorn - truly special - and nobody needs to know about it. You are stealth, living below the radar as male, and all is well. You look in the mirror and see a boy, and, although the lie may come out when you are in the shower, you either don’t look down or you remember your unique position in the world as a “trans” man).
Sorry for the long exposition, but I think it’s important to keep fleshing out the different ways in which the “trans” phenomenon is manifested.
Also, I’m excited for Eliza, having completed her doctorate - Oh the Places You’ll Go!! :)
Don’t be sorry! I think it’s a great point. I suspect (from up-close N=1 observation) that sometimes, the new-twink confidence is phase one of the journey while the doubt/angst/suffering phase (some of it performative, not all) takes time to develop.
This conversation was very moving and intelligent. It really feels as if we are getting to a better understanding of this damaging phenomenon, which is another step in the right direction.
The first time I heard Eliza being interviewed several years ago I knew immediately she was someone I needed to follow if I wanted to develop a deeper understanding of gender ideology. This interview didn’t disappoint. It offered up insightful analysis while being thoroughly imbued with compassion. Jenny - the quality of your interviews and conversations with your guests is unmatched.
Well, doesn't that just make my day! Thank you so much, Barb, and you're absolutely right about Eliza.
Thanks for interviewing Eliza, I look forward to reading the thesis. I hope it gets a DOI reference so it can be cited definitively. I believe academia.edu also allows free uploads of papers but I don't see Eliza has a profile there, under that name.
EM is a pseudonym and not the name on the paper. I wish I’d asked her if she plans to ‘come out’ now that she’s graduated. We’ll see.
I can't blame anyone for wanting to protect their privacy and personal safety, particularly in this field.
Yeah, the pseudonym predated my time in graduate school. When I started writing about gender online in 2019, I would have been fired from my nonprofit job had I used my real name, since trans-obsessed foundations were our biggest funders.
Well, if JK Rowling can publish under multiple names, we all can. Good luck with the publication!
All of my academic work and my work (mostly behind the scenes) to help bring clinicians and researchers together has been under my real name for years. I plan to share my thesis when it's published online but it hasn't been added to my university's library yet.
Thanks for the shout-out!
I have to read this thesis.
… said no one, ever — but you should, actually! Ask Eliza!😆
This was a great conversation!! I found myself chiming in (luckily nobody heard me) as you were discussing the motivations and psychology of these girls.
I would like to add a third way that some girls react to the pressures of girlhood/womanhood. You noted that there are efforts to play along, dig deep into looking the part (ie. “hot”), and trying for popularity, etc., or, by contrast, efforts to diverge from this path by playing the victim, owning your various diagnoses or weaknesses and opting out of the difficulty of adhering to the undue pressure of trying to be an ideal woman. I know you both agreed this may be a bit simplistic, but I agree with you that these are worthwhile categories of adaption style.
Here is a third option. You aren’t weak or filled with diagnoses. Instead, you are truly unique and cool, a “true trans” individual who is well put together and will make a great guy (because we all know that “pretty boys” are elevated by society - and these days, that even applies to gay pretty boys, aka “twinks,” although you will be pretty short - oh well; you’ll be fashionable; and a sensitive boy is also highly valued, at least as girls see it). In this method of adapting, you completely opt out of all the pressures of womanhood but don’t take on victimhood. You’re not a victim. You’re a unicorn - truly special - and nobody needs to know about it. You are stealth, living below the radar as male, and all is well. You look in the mirror and see a boy, and, although the lie may come out when you are in the shower, you either don’t look down or you remember your unique position in the world as a “trans” man).
Sorry for the long exposition, but I think it’s important to keep fleshing out the different ways in which the “trans” phenomenon is manifested.
Also, I’m excited for Eliza, having completed her doctorate - Oh the Places You’ll Go!! :)
Don’t be sorry! I think it’s a great point. I suspect (from up-close N=1 observation) that sometimes, the new-twink confidence is phase one of the journey while the doubt/angst/suffering phase (some of it performative, not all) takes time to develop.
This conversation was very moving and intelligent. It really feels as if we are getting to a better understanding of this damaging phenomenon, which is another step in the right direction.
Thank you, Elisabeth. 🙏