I belong to a progressive news site that has a gender thread among its many forums and occasionally I will make a comment which predictably get a tribal response. Some come running with studies and facts, some stress kindness but all have a subtext that says if you question this you are not a good person. The inverse is what I think drives this: the desire to be seen as virtuous. In a world where status is a shaky enterprise folks can't resist holding the sword of righteousness aloft. It's self-esteem on the cheap.
On the cheap, exactly. 'Kindness' as a political philosophy is so facile, all it does it end the discussion. Better to be dumb and 'kind' than curious and objective.
I am glad I didn't listen to this at the gym (with headphones) because I would have sounded like a lunatic - constantly saying "EXACTLY!" "YES!" "THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN THINKING ALL THIS TIME!" "THAT'S RIGHT!"
We desperately need a liberal organization like DIAG to bring awareness to the fact that this is not just a right-wing, conservative Republican movement. I'm not putting down people on the right, conservatives or Republicans, but just saying that everyone on the left, including my kid, will ignore every warning about the health of young vulnerable individuals and the fairness and safety of women if they think it's just right-wing extremism.
It is unfortunate that people are so foolish and mindless that they don't actually consider the ideas - sick, destructive, illogical, insane, cruel ideas - behind gender ideology, but only consider the source, and never acknowledge that sometimes people you disagree with about many things might be right on a given issue. Thus, the only way to get through to people who don't want to think too hard, and desperately don't want to be associated with Republicans, conservatives or anyone on the right - and who don't want to realize they were ever wrong either - is for an organization like DIAG to bring these warnings to light.
And, as for "kindness," it is the opposite of kind to get a teenage girl to hate her body, chemically and surgically alter it to a less healthy body, and think she has to deny her biological reality to ever be happy. It is the opposite of kind to get gay boys to lop off their testicles, invert their penises and pretend they are women. It is the opposite of kind to force athletic girls to compete with boys who are themselves in the throws of a delusion. And so on. This is pure cruelty.
Lastly, as to the idea of admitting you are wrong, I would have the upmost respect for any politician who came around and announced having been mistaken. As a lawyer, I have always appreciated the few judges who have reversed their own decisions on motions to re-argue, admitting to having made a wrong decision. We all make mistakes. It's those who dig in their heels and refuse to change course for whom I have the most disdain.
So, thank you, thank you, thank you. Keep it up! I'm with you.
Thank you for that kind and eloquent comment, my friend! I felt the same way after having the conversation with them — and also with you! The universe of grownups in the US who ‘get it’ is still tiny, but DIAG is trying to correct that problem at scale, and I think it’s a brilliant move.
As to why no one will break ranks…. It reminds me of part of the Trojan War myth - that the first man to get off the ship and set foot on the beach at Troy to fight, would die. (So no one would, until Protesilaus). Whoever breaks rank early in the party is going to be massively punished. I think that’s already happened to some people who’ve been deselected.
Yes, one heroic state legislator in TX has already been ‘primaried’ out, thanks to the Dem Party. There may be others. It takes courage and honor to be that person — like Liz Cheney on the right — but that’s not the vibe these days, is it.
In the UK allegations against Rosie Duffield might have prevented her from standing for Labour. But she was cleared in time fortunately. For Democrats to stand up to the agenda, it needs a number of people to reveal themselves together in solidarity! Or, as was said in the podcast, if DI-AG can get a substantial number of people signed up, it makes it possible to put pressure on and then for the politicians to respect the numbers.
I am essentially flabbergasted at how the parties on the left in the West have just wholly endorsed everything trans activists want. You have to 1) endorse sterilizing kids on the autism spectrum and 2) believe in some quasi-religious "gender-soul" .
It's just so irrational and lacking evidence. How the parties that are home to atheists promote this social contagion is beyond me.
Though I personally am too angry at this point to stay affiliated with the Democratic Party, I am glad to find a sane, intelligent coalition of Democrats who are trying to rescue the party from "woke" capture.
I see comments below about other positions of "this group," notably on same-sex marriage/families and reproductive rights. Is this referring to DIAG? I don't see these positions on their Web site.
Personally, I am glad to see groups of different beliefs on other issues make common cause on this one. (Pull back the sheets; I'm in, odd bedfellows.) The conservative Independent Women's Forum and radical feminist Women's Liberation Front (WoLF) are currently conducting a nationwide bus tour to save Title IX. (Participants include both Riley Gaines and Martina Navratilova, far apart on the political spectrum.) The two groups also are cooperating to legally challenge "gender-affirming care" and males in female prisons. Working together, we can accomplish more than working separately.
I am a pro-choice lesbian feminist and a co-founder of Gay Pride in my city (1991). I'm glad for every person and group working to protect children -- gay kids are especially susceptible -- from gender ideology, and girls' and women's spaces from male trespass.
I appreciate the clarification. It was hard for me to imagine typical Dems holding the conservative views outlined, but then, I no longer know what defines a typical Dem.
Thanks for posting this interview; it was highly illuminating, and I admire the intelligence, courage and perseverance of these mothers. I have forwarded it to a gender-critical Democratic friend who hasn't yet given up on the party.
I can affirm from my own (attempted) conversations with progressive friends that presenting facts and evidence is pointless when discussing gender ideology with the "woke." I was shocked at how uninformed they are, having drunk the Kool-Aid without checking for cyanide.
I saw a post on here a few minutes ago questioning if this group is actually homophobic (or maybe if it’s accused of being transphobic because of its stance on affirmative care). A quick search of their website shows numerous references to how they promote the idea of mothers and fathers having kids within the sanctity of a marriage. They’re clearly against same sex parents raising kids. And they also make it really clear that they believe life starts at conception and that these unborn lives need to be protected. I want all the help we can can with defeating the trans agenda to medicalize children,
But I think we need to do so without getting in bed with orgs that want to deny women’s reproductive rights and also are against gay couples raising children (and probably also against single people raising children).
Principles listed on their website:
<<snip>>
“Recognizes the fundamental mother-father family unit, within the context of marriage, to be the optimal setting for the development and nurturing of children and pledges to promote this unit.
Recognizes the unique value of every human life from the time of conception to natural death and pledges to promote research and clinical practice that provides for the healthiest outcome of the child from conception to adulthood.
Recognizes the essential role parents play in encouraging and correcting the child and pledges to protect and promote this role.
Recognizes the physical and emotional benefits of sexual abstinence until marriage and pledges to promote this behavior as the ideal for adolescence.”
Thank you for articulating exactly what has been going through my mind since ACP released their declaration. Considering their views on family and abortion, I really don’t see how this will help our case with fellow liberals who are less informed/misinformed about what is going on with our kids. In fact, I’m guessing it does quite the opposite.
We need opposition to the Democrats who are pushing gender ideology , and I’m not sure that Trump is the answer. A lot of us former Democrats don’t know what to do as far as voting in this election!
I think so too, because of the ‘Fox News fallacy,’ where the under-informed person assumes that if it was reported there, it’s just right-wing propaganda.That gives him an excuse to remain uninformed and it further silos our case.
The original ask was for DIAG to be a signatory to ACP’s petition. That’s not my decision of course, but I read the text of the petition and taken alone, I thought it was well written and thoroughly cited. I hope it becomes an amicus brief in all the upcoming lawsuits.
But the controversial principles of the source, ACP, introduce a reputational risk to an organization like DIAG, so if they asked me I would say don’t sign. There’s no upside. And anonymous support is meaningless, imo.
I wrote the comment about whether the group might have been unfairly characterized, but I deleted the comment after checking out their website, which is as you’ve shown. Thanks for taking the time.
The original "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" was seen at the time as an allegory of communism and the red scare. The remake is famous but flawed. I have an 8x10 production still of the original, autographed by Kevin McCarthy annd Dana Wynter, that I got an an auction some years ago. I keep it here next t othe place where I sit when I open my email in the morning to start finding out what sort of gender nonsense the world got up to last night. I must glance at it 10,000 times a day.
Now, I'm envious -- an autographed production still from the 1956 movie! One of my all-time favorites. Nothing quite like the horror in Kevin McCarthy's eyes when he discovers his beloved Dana Wynter has fallen asleep and awakened as one of the woke, er ... pod people. The analogy to gender ideology is so apt!
Thank you for that Jenny. I'm not in the US. In fact I'm in New Zealand, but the situation is the same here. It's great to hear women standing firm against this crazy ideology. It warms my heart and lifts my spirits. Let's hope it isn't too long until all those who are promoting this ideology see the error of their ways and hopefully (though I'm not holding my breath) our kids come back to us.
I’d love to read it. Can you forward it to me? I can’t choose what DIAG supports but I’m happy to pass it along, or you could share with them directly. How many members does ACPeds have?
I have heard that this org has a super homophobic platform so please do due diligence before jumping on board with them! I’ve seen quotes from their website that would seem to confirm that assessment.
I realize that but does AAP protect gay kids with affirmation? Would you rather have a whole intact child or a chemically and surgically altered child? @acpeds has promised anonymity but AAP has promised no debate. Your tone stinks!
I belong to a progressive news site that has a gender thread among its many forums and occasionally I will make a comment which predictably get a tribal response. Some come running with studies and facts, some stress kindness but all have a subtext that says if you question this you are not a good person. The inverse is what I think drives this: the desire to be seen as virtuous. In a world where status is a shaky enterprise folks can't resist holding the sword of righteousness aloft. It's self-esteem on the cheap.
On the cheap, exactly. 'Kindness' as a political philosophy is so facile, all it does it end the discussion. Better to be dumb and 'kind' than curious and objective.
Excellent interview, thank you Ellie and Eliza for your hardwork and for the courage in truth telling.
Thanks for the kind words, DC.
I am glad I didn't listen to this at the gym (with headphones) because I would have sounded like a lunatic - constantly saying "EXACTLY!" "YES!" "THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN THINKING ALL THIS TIME!" "THAT'S RIGHT!"
We desperately need a liberal organization like DIAG to bring awareness to the fact that this is not just a right-wing, conservative Republican movement. I'm not putting down people on the right, conservatives or Republicans, but just saying that everyone on the left, including my kid, will ignore every warning about the health of young vulnerable individuals and the fairness and safety of women if they think it's just right-wing extremism.
It is unfortunate that people are so foolish and mindless that they don't actually consider the ideas - sick, destructive, illogical, insane, cruel ideas - behind gender ideology, but only consider the source, and never acknowledge that sometimes people you disagree with about many things might be right on a given issue. Thus, the only way to get through to people who don't want to think too hard, and desperately don't want to be associated with Republicans, conservatives or anyone on the right - and who don't want to realize they were ever wrong either - is for an organization like DIAG to bring these warnings to light.
And, as for "kindness," it is the opposite of kind to get a teenage girl to hate her body, chemically and surgically alter it to a less healthy body, and think she has to deny her biological reality to ever be happy. It is the opposite of kind to get gay boys to lop off their testicles, invert their penises and pretend they are women. It is the opposite of kind to force athletic girls to compete with boys who are themselves in the throws of a delusion. And so on. This is pure cruelty.
Lastly, as to the idea of admitting you are wrong, I would have the upmost respect for any politician who came around and announced having been mistaken. As a lawyer, I have always appreciated the few judges who have reversed their own decisions on motions to re-argue, admitting to having made a wrong decision. We all make mistakes. It's those who dig in their heels and refuse to change course for whom I have the most disdain.
So, thank you, thank you, thank you. Keep it up! I'm with you.
Thank you for that kind and eloquent comment, my friend! I felt the same way after having the conversation with them — and also with you! The universe of grownups in the US who ‘get it’ is still tiny, but DIAG is trying to correct that problem at scale, and I think it’s a brilliant move.
Just adding that it was my honor to have been invited to be your very first podcast guest!
And that I agree - we desperately need to widen the group of individuals who are sane on this topic!
As to why no one will break ranks…. It reminds me of part of the Trojan War myth - that the first man to get off the ship and set foot on the beach at Troy to fight, would die. (So no one would, until Protesilaus). Whoever breaks rank early in the party is going to be massively punished. I think that’s already happened to some people who’ve been deselected.
Yes, one heroic state legislator in TX has already been ‘primaried’ out, thanks to the Dem Party. There may be others. It takes courage and honor to be that person — like Liz Cheney on the right — but that’s not the vibe these days, is it.
And that’s why I’m not voting for Democrats, the party of the transies and the Woke!
In the UK allegations against Rosie Duffield might have prevented her from standing for Labour. But she was cleared in time fortunately. For Democrats to stand up to the agenda, it needs a number of people to reveal themselves together in solidarity! Or, as was said in the podcast, if DI-AG can get a substantial number of people signed up, it makes it possible to put pressure on and then for the politicians to respect the numbers.
It’s going to be a hard slog!
Really excited this is happening. Bravery!
I am essentially flabbergasted at how the parties on the left in the West have just wholly endorsed everything trans activists want. You have to 1) endorse sterilizing kids on the autism spectrum and 2) believe in some quasi-religious "gender-soul" .
It's just so irrational and lacking evidence. How the parties that are home to atheists promote this social contagion is beyond me.
Though I personally am too angry at this point to stay affiliated with the Democratic Party, I am glad to find a sane, intelligent coalition of Democrats who are trying to rescue the party from "woke" capture.
I see comments below about other positions of "this group," notably on same-sex marriage/families and reproductive rights. Is this referring to DIAG? I don't see these positions on their Web site.
Personally, I am glad to see groups of different beliefs on other issues make common cause on this one. (Pull back the sheets; I'm in, odd bedfellows.) The conservative Independent Women's Forum and radical feminist Women's Liberation Front (WoLF) are currently conducting a nationwide bus tour to save Title IX. (Participants include both Riley Gaines and Martina Navratilova, far apart on the political spectrum.) The two groups also are cooperating to legally challenge "gender-affirming care" and males in female prisons. Working together, we can accomplish more than working separately.
I am a pro-choice lesbian feminist and a co-founder of Gay Pride in my city (1991). I'm glad for every person and group working to protect children -- gay kids are especially susceptible -- from gender ideology, and girls' and women's spaces from male trespass.
Cate —re the question in your second paragraph: no, it was a reference to the American College of Pediatricians, not DIAG.
I appreciate the clarification. It was hard for me to imagine typical Dems holding the conservative views outlined, but then, I no longer know what defines a typical Dem.
Thanks for posting this interview; it was highly illuminating, and I admire the intelligence, courage and perseverance of these mothers. I have forwarded it to a gender-critical Democratic friend who hasn't yet given up on the party.
I can affirm from my own (attempted) conversations with progressive friends that presenting facts and evidence is pointless when discussing gender ideology with the "woke." I was shocked at how uninformed they are, having drunk the Kool-Aid without checking for cyanide.
I saw a post on here a few minutes ago questioning if this group is actually homophobic (or maybe if it’s accused of being transphobic because of its stance on affirmative care). A quick search of their website shows numerous references to how they promote the idea of mothers and fathers having kids within the sanctity of a marriage. They’re clearly against same sex parents raising kids. And they also make it really clear that they believe life starts at conception and that these unborn lives need to be protected. I want all the help we can can with defeating the trans agenda to medicalize children,
But I think we need to do so without getting in bed with orgs that want to deny women’s reproductive rights and also are against gay couples raising children (and probably also against single people raising children).
Principles listed on their website:
<<snip>>
“Recognizes the fundamental mother-father family unit, within the context of marriage, to be the optimal setting for the development and nurturing of children and pledges to promote this unit.
Recognizes the unique value of every human life from the time of conception to natural death and pledges to promote research and clinical practice that provides for the healthiest outcome of the child from conception to adulthood.
Recognizes the essential role parents play in encouraging and correcting the child and pledges to protect and promote this role.
Recognizes the physical and emotional benefits of sexual abstinence until marriage and pledges to promote this behavior as the ideal for adolescence.”
Thank you for articulating exactly what has been going through my mind since ACP released their declaration. Considering their views on family and abortion, I really don’t see how this will help our case with fellow liberals who are less informed/misinformed about what is going on with our kids. In fact, I’m guessing it does quite the opposite.
I agree. I think it’s a marginal group. I’m a pediatrician.
We need opposition to the Democrats who are pushing gender ideology , and I’m not sure that Trump is the answer. A lot of us former Democrats don’t know what to do as far as voting in this election!
It’s really sad how democrats don’t take a serious look at this issue. No reason for it to be partisan
I think so too, because of the ‘Fox News fallacy,’ where the under-informed person assumes that if it was reported there, it’s just right-wing propaganda.That gives him an excuse to remain uninformed and it further silos our case.
The original ask was for DIAG to be a signatory to ACP’s petition. That’s not my decision of course, but I read the text of the petition and taken alone, I thought it was well written and thoroughly cited. I hope it becomes an amicus brief in all the upcoming lawsuits.
But the controversial principles of the source, ACP, introduce a reputational risk to an organization like DIAG, so if they asked me I would say don’t sign. There’s no upside. And anonymous support is meaningless, imo.
I wrote the comment about whether the group might have been unfairly characterized, but I deleted the comment after checking out their website, which is as you’ve shown. Thanks for taking the time.
The original "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" was seen at the time as an allegory of communism and the red scare. The remake is famous but flawed. I have an 8x10 production still of the original, autographed by Kevin McCarthy annd Dana Wynter, that I got an an auction some years ago. I keep it here next t othe place where I sit when I open my email in the morning to start finding out what sort of gender nonsense the world got up to last night. I must glance at it 10,000 times a day.
Now, I'm envious -- an autographed production still from the 1956 movie! One of my all-time favorites. Nothing quite like the horror in Kevin McCarthy's eyes when he discovers his beloved Dana Wynter has fallen asleep and awakened as one of the woke, er ... pod people. The analogy to gender ideology is so apt!
Thank you for that Jenny. I'm not in the US. In fact I'm in New Zealand, but the situation is the same here. It's great to hear women standing firm against this crazy ideology. It warms my heart and lifts my spirits. Let's hope it isn't too long until all those who are promoting this ideology see the error of their ways and hopefully (though I'm not holding my breath) our kids come back to us.
ADAB in the house! 🙌🏼 thanks for the shout out Jenny. 🤗
I’m all about the attribution. 😇
ACpeds have a petition for pediatricians to sign anonymously. Could you support this?
I’d love to read it. Can you forward it to me? I can’t choose what DIAG supports but I’m happy to pass it along, or you could share with them directly. How many members does ACPeds have?
https://x.com/ACPeds/status/1798686275622621537?t=1g3mV0NfcYfgdggTQeXHFA&s=19
I don't know how many they have.
I have heard that this org has a super homophobic platform so please do due diligence before jumping on board with them! I’ve seen quotes from their website that would seem to confirm that assessment.
I realize that but does AAP protect gay kids with affirmation? Would you rather have a whole intact child or a chemically and surgically altered child? @acpeds has promised anonymity but AAP has promised no debate. Your tone stinks!
No, it doesn't. And, declining to affiliate with a homophobic group doesn't constitute an endorsement of the AAP.
My comment above was directed at the now disappeared troll.
https://x.com/Jonnywsbell/status/1801719157643448545?t=iL_DeVLzvfr8Q1ruhA2_Qg&s=19